As a little update to my last post regarding Campaigns in Hyboria (or similar), below are some images of my recent tinkerings with siege rules. As a starting point I've used Dominion of the Spear (DotS) but will adapt the conclusions for the Portable War Game. My interest in sieges is due to working on an "Ancients" Campaign setting (ImagiNations) which is home to fortified cities - while sides will be encouraged (by the risk of plague, famine etc) not to hide behind fortifications, the need may arise for some simple rules to game attacks on a city or fort.
Siege Engines
Attacking the Walls or Defenders with Engines in my first adaptation for DotS. I later decided I wanted to show which units were actually manning the battlements
Battering Rams
Attacking a Gate with a ram operated by Infantry
By this stage I had decided that the only Defenders that could engage with the sieging army would be Archers (or other Infantry missile types) who would be positioned on the battlements.
Likewise only Archers could be attacking the defending units until a breach is made.
Non missile infantry could possibly defend a gateway that is equipped with meurtriere (murder holes).
Once the gate is breached the Infantry discard the ram and are fighting like normal.
This is very much a work in progress, so any ideas for Sieges in DotS or PW will be warmly received!
Ohh nice. I am thinking some mechanism for heroic 'taking of the city' or alternately' heroic defence' such that a nod to REH's stories could emerge. Like a random table of 'events' and a roll off so that a story of the city's demise or otherwise is created...'Conan happens to be in the tavern and decides to pick a side' etc
ReplyDeleteNice idea! I hadn't thought of random events once the siege is underway...
DeleteIf you want to create sieges, as opposed to assaults against fortifications I would suggest reading Tony Bath's Ancient Wargaming Including Setting Up a Wargame Campaign. It has an entire subset of rules for resolving Sieges abstractly. It's also a wealth on it own of his own take of Hyboria.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the suggestion! I have Tony Bath's Wargame Campaign volume and will take another look. I have used some of his ideas for background though I confess I have no intention of delving as deeply into a Campaign as he did.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI vaguely recall there was something in an old magazine (Lone Warrior, maybe? Possibly Slingshot?) years ago which used a maths formula to determine outcomes of siege assaults. I’m not sure that’s an easy way to go here but, from what little I can recall, the original article allocated “points” for everything.
ReplyDeleteSo, something like:
2 points per heavy infantryman, 1 point per light infantryman, 3 points per heavily armoured infantryman.
Then, for each missile “unit” in the army, say, +25% if armed with sling or bow, +50% if armed with crossbow or longbow. For the actual assault +??% for melee troops who have a shield.
Finally, for the entire army, plus or minus various percentages depending on effectiveness of General (so, Poor quality commander might be -10%, Average commander +15%, Exceptional commander +50%).
Maybe add a random factor of a D6 (where 1 = -5%, 2 = +5%, 3 = +20%, etc). That would give an Army total. Defending armies will have a +% for strength of walls (weak or strong? Well maintained? Has there been any pre-assault artillery bombardment?).
Compare the Army total of the Attacker against that of the Defender. A significantly higher ratio gives a greater chance to success, a low ratio would indicate lack of success or even failure.
Depending how much effort you want to put in there would doubtless be lots and lots of variables here - alternatively you could just throw a D6 and read off a pre-prepared list of potential outcomes. I’m pretty certain there’s no “right” answer anyway, so just go with whatever suits you.
Cheers,
Geoff
Cheers Geoff. As always I'm looking for the simple but fun answer, with a touch of Hollywood!
DeleteI outlined a system for using Dominion of the Spear for sieges in the comments section of Bob Cordery's (Wargames Miscellany) from April 10th on Dominion of the Spear and Bayonet.
ReplyDeleteMark, thanks yes you did and I couldn't remember where it was!
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts for DotS were based on what I could remember of yours, with additions. I looking at doing something similar for the PW.
I hope you find it useful, I'm very interested in seeing your ideas.
DeleteRough thoughts to date for sieges on walled towns or Forts for DotS follow:
Delete1. For the defenders, only Infantry may be placed on the battlements. Either 2 or 3 units may be placed on battlements and up to 3 units in reserve (within the walls).
2. Attackers, Siege Engines fire from the front row but are situated out of archer range – they require a 5 or 6 to hit either defenders OR to breach a portion of wall.
3. Once a breach is made Siege Engines are replaced in the front row by a reserve unit who fights in the usual way with the opposing unit inside the walls
4. Only Archers may engage attackers FROM the battlements (requires 6 or 5,6 for Elite Archers) and only attacking Archers may hit units ON the battlements (requires 6 or 5,6 for Elite Archers).
5. Gateways – Attacking a gateway with a ram, requires a 5 or 6. Once gateway is open the ram unit becomes a unit of infantry who fight in the usual way with the opposing unit inside the walls
6. Murder holes – while a unit is attacking a gateway with a ram, a unit on the battlements may attempt to drop objects through Murder Holes situated above the gateway (requires a 5,6 to hit)
7. Sortie - On the defenders turn they may launch a Sortie with a unit from the reserve, attacking the enemy unit of their choice, if they are cavalry their attack roll is resolved first.
8. Escalade – defending units on the walls roll first with +1. If the section of wall being attacked is vacant then it can be taken without a fight and the attacking unit can flank attack the nearest enemy on the wall.
Excellent and very sensible. How would you propose handling mines, disease and starving the garrison out?
DeleteI'd have to think about under-mining walls - I haven't actually considered it for my ancients.
DeleteHenry Hyde has some ideas about sieges in his Wargaming Companion which I want to look at because I'm thinking I'd like to impose quite strict penalties on Armies that shut themselves in fortified towns! More to follow...
Sieges are tough to run in a convincing way, but this might well do the job 👍🏼
ReplyDeleteCheers Martin. I guess most of the time there was just a lot of hanging around. Here's the sort of siege I have in mind...
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WtjxN9ET8o
I swear one of the attackers has a cigarette in his mouth 🤣
Yep, agreed - one of the guys in full face helmet…but he’d done the director the honour of not lighting up yet…🙂
ReplyDeleteHe was just going to have a cheeky smoke when the order to "climb that bl**dy ladder you 'orrible lot" came through..
Delete😁... No pay as an extra if you don’t show up for the escalade. He was probably in the smoking pagoda when the AD called for the crew to round ‘em up.
Delete